7 Things You Should Know About Karen Brightbill’s Blog About Us.

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Last year this blogger wrote a blog titled “Here Are 7 Surprising Things You Need to Know About Joe and Nicole Naugler”. I am always amused when people who don’t actually know me, pretend that they do. So as the actual expert on my life, I will clarify Ms. Brightbills misleading blog which you can read here

1. Homeschooling is legal. She is correct on homeschooling laws on Kentucky. However, homeschooling was cited for the reasons the CPS involvement. I don’t recall saying that was the sole reason. But yes, we are a homeschooling family, and that played a role in my children’s abduction. The court documents this blogger posted state that. I don’t know why she would ignore that. On her behalf, Ms. Brightbill wrote her blog before the Cos made an official finding. It was failure to register as homeschoolers. That was all CPS found.

2. The CPS Complaint. “As you can see, unlike what the Nauglers are stating publicly, the children were not removed because they were homeschooling—the accusation that the children were not enrolled in school is one small portion of a lengthy complaint.” Again, we didn’t say that. We have always been upfront and released the CPS complaint from the beginning.

“Notice that the allegations include the father threatening a neighbor with a weapon,”— yes. Allegations. That  has absolutely nothing to do with a CPS case. Menacing is a class B misdemeanor. They don’t take kids for class B misdemeanors.

“that the property includes numerous piles of garbage, scattered broken glass and nails, and mention of the family residing in makeshift tents. The photos posted on the Nauglers’ Facebook page and blog back up those allegations.– none of those things warrant removal of children.

The following comments were posted either on Nicole Naugler’s personal Facebook page or on the family page by people claiming to know the Nauglers. I cannot verify the veracity of the claims, but they certainly present a different narrative than the one presented by the Nauglers. (Note: these posts have since been deleted by the Nauglers)— the first image is of a twisted account of the menacing story. We have never stolen water. Not ever. The others are just common criticism. You are a bad parent blah blah blah. Nothing substantiating. Then there is the one from the family who said we were the only ones banned from their home. I posted a few weeks ago that story. We hung out with this family in their home 3-4 times. The last time we had a debate on healthcare and government. They sent us a FB message saying we were just too competitive. One of my sons was actually still FB friends with them at the time of that post. Odd. I don’t fault Jon and Amy for it. They were generally nice people. I hope one day they apologize for creating a false image of us.

3. Living Conditions. The damn 3 walled cabin. Yes, in May, the cabin had 3 walls. We opened up the cabin on purpose. It was safe from the elements. In the winter however, it had 4 walls. As I have stated numerous times, but people don’t listen, we returned the prefab to save on funds, we built this cabin with the only goal of getting by till spring. I am the first to admit that it was rough. But it was a stepping stone, not the end goal. And guess what. We survived. We didn’t get sick or hurt. We managed to sustain on a limited income. We were positioning ourselves to be able to swim instead just treading water.

I want to add here I’ve seen people misinterpret some of the photos. The stick walls were a fence. The tarp covered the real walls which lacked siding. The big tarp covered the picnic area. Ariel photos show our multi colored metal roof thus proving we didn’t have a tarp roof, it was metal. The snow in the counters was outside, on an outside counter. Not in the cabin. And if you are the type who still thinks our cabin was exposed to the outdoors and unsafe. WE SURVIVED A HARSH WINTER IN A 3 WALLED SHACK. So there’s that. But anyone who knows me, will tell you. I’m not that bad ass. I’m a wuss when it comes to cold. I WAS WEARING A SWEATER IN MAY.

4. This is not their first contact with CPS.  As I blogged the other day, we had 8 CPS contacts. That has nothing to do with us, it has everything to do with the type of people who call CPS. It also shows CPS was aware of our lifestyle. During the visits in 2013 I was told by the worker ” people don’t live like you. People will find it odd. I expect more calls”

5. Possible identification abuse: it’s not legally required to register your birth or file for a SS number. My children’s identities were never in jeopardy. This is a weak tactic used to discredit my family and invoke fearful emotions on readers.

6. Previous run ins with the law. Another tactic. “Previous run ins with the law” is a phrase used to create an image of negativity. But what runs in were these? A missed court date and a few traffic tickets and a bounced check.  Not the hardened criminal they would like you to think. It’s not a pattern of criminal activity.

7. The audio recordings. My biggest flaw here is my argumentative side. I need to remember “I don’t answer questions am I being detained” I didn’t. I said blah blah blah you little whore. But I asked the Sheriff numerous times. What was he concerned with. He never answered. He saw both my sons. He didn’t request they speak with him. He only wanted a visual. He later admitted it was because he already planned to ambush me, and wanted to lay out his plan. If my children were in immanent danger, why was Joe, the “armed and dangerous one” given 12 hours to surrender our 8 younger children?

I know I was hysterical in my audio. I can’t imagine any mom not doing so, especially one who is pregnant which already comes with the tendency to be excessively emotional.

In conclusion

None of this justified the abduction of my children. None of this justified keeping them for 8 weeks. This was a lesson. The message is clear. Invoking your rights makes authorities suspicious. Not cooperating with law enforcements demands is interpreted endangering your child. I saw a video the other day, the office was beating a woman. He told her ” if you don’t agree, you can sue the department. You don’t fight, you sue”. This is a clear message that you have no rights and no freedom to invoke them. Do as your told and no one gets hurt. This is what you tell people dealing with terrorists, not law enforcement.

*edited to add. Reading the comments on the original post. I did ask for an attorney. Several times that day. And I asked numerous times for a warrant. And the timeline of events was we first spoke to CPS was around 10am on May 6th. My children were taken around 8pm that same day.

*also, please share this blog where ever you see Ms. Brightbills blog.

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52 Responses

  1. only1

    You seem to leave the shitting in the bucket and the children traipsing through the woods, up hill, to dump raw sewage….yeah, that’s a big one that should have been mentioned.

  2. Brooke Stephens

    I’ve hardly paid any attention to what all happened with cps and yet reading over her blog I can hear her stretching things to get people to see things the way she wants them to..

    Some people just can’t stand the idea that Thiers is not the only way of life

  3. I Dare Your To Post This

    Why are you addressing a blog post from almost a year and a half ago? CPS coming down on you again? What are you hoping to accomplish with dredging up the past? And for the record I will say that denying your kids birth certificates and SS numbers really DOES fuck up their lives should they choose to live them differently than you do.

  4. Sandrine

    You quoted, and then said: “that the property includes numerous piles of garbage, scattered broken glass and nails, and mention of the family residing in makeshift tents. The photos posted on the Nauglers’ Facebook page and blog back up those allegations.”– “none of those things warrant removal of children.”
    Yes, it did.

  5. Ben

    Perhaps you could sue Ms. Brightbill for slander, defamation of character, mental and emotional pain and grief, and a few other things that a crafty lawyer could think up.

  6. BlessedLittleHomestead

    Not only do I disagree, it’s not in the guidelines of removal. The children were mentally, physically and emotionally healthy.n

  7. BlessedLittleHomestead

    Jill Nelson thanks for the dare. Yes, I dare approved your post.

    I addressed this because it’s been widely circulated and it’s my duty to clarify misinformation and misrepresentation of my family, regardless of when it was written.

  8. BlessedLittleHomestead

    Q: are you tired of trolls?
    A: does a bear shit in the woods

  9. Meagan

    It’s ridiculous that people just don’t know how to keep their mouths shut. I’m sorry that you’ve even had to deal with that. It’s absolute nonsense.

  10. Misty Caudle

    I spent a quarter of my life living in a decrepit falling apart camper with my 2 siblings, my mom, and my step father. We had no electric and no running water. We used an out house. My entire life at that point fit in a milk crate. CPS hounded us from kindergarten all the way to high school. I honestly feel like living the way we did has made me a better person today. I have nothing but love and empathy for you.

  11. Sue Warmoth

    Those people who are constantly in your business must live very dull lives indeed. All I have seen of your family is healthy, happy kids who have been taught to work and know how to play. It says very little about you and a whole bunch about who and what those people are that they feel the need to constantly attempt to cause you problems. Don’t allow it. Be who you are and ignore them. Give them no attention, no response at all. Live your life and raise your family how you see fit. Thank you for sharing your journey.

  12. Jonetta Elkins

    I’ve read several of your blogs and Facebook page and this is just my opinion while I don’t care how you live or raise your kids because it’s not my business, I will say you also spend just as much time feeding into the trolls and put alot of time n energy into defending yourself. Can you not be the bigger person here and take the high road as long as you continue to feed them there gonna come eat. Spend that time n energy being productive on your Homestead and your children!! Think of all you could get done with your cabin if you stopped feeding them!! My opinion only and my advice from being on the outside looking in!! Have a great day!!

  13. Mary

    If ibwaanthe mother to any if those people that sit and cut you down and try to fully you into fitting it the same box as they do…I would be ashamed if them and disown them. Little kids or teen agers bully other kids NOT a grown up. They are wrong. They should just go back in their box and someone should tape it shut.

  14. Jingerbread

    Darling, all fifty states require the registration of births. It’s a vital statistic. That is how you are abusing your children’s identities. Birth registration secures their birthrights as citizens of the US, and you have deliberately denied them of their birthrights. When they get older and want to do things, it will be exceedingly difficult for them to do so, especially as you are unlikely to help them get birth certificates. A social security number is only mandated for infants and children if you want to claim them on your taxes.

  15. Megan F

    “Find me that law. I will wait. ?”

    ~ for someone who seems to eschew the law at every turn, it’s interesting that you would hide behind the law to defend your position. From the UN Convention on the rights of a child (and other interesting points from Wiki that refer to the spirit of the law rather than its letter):

    “The child shall be registered immediately after birth and shall have the right from birth to a name, the right to acquire a nationality…” (CRC Article 7) and “States Parties undertake to respect the right of the child to preserve his or her identity, including nationality, name and family relations…” (CRC Article 8).

    By their very nature, data concerning unregistered children are approximate; however, it was estimated in 2008 that 51 million babies – more than two fifths of those born worldwide – were not registered at birth.This phenomenon disproportionately impacts indigenous populations and even in many developed countries, contributes to difficulties in fully accessing civic rights.

    ***Birth registration opens the door to rights to children and adults which many other human beings take for granted: to prove their age; to prove their nationality; to receive healthcare; to go to school; to take exams; to be adopted; to protection from under-age military service or conscription; to marry; to open a bank account; to hold a driving licence; to obtain a passport; to inherit money or property; and to vote or stand for elected office.***”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_certificate

  16. Andrea

    Kentucky code 213.046: “Registration of births required.” “A certificate of birth for each live birth which occurs in the Commonwealth shall be filed with the local registrar within ten (10) days after such birth”

    You must realize that your children without birth certificates are going to have an extremely difficult time proving their identity to get a driver’s license, get on a plane, get a job, buy a house, etc.

  17. Megan F

    In any case, here is a description of the laws and regulations regarding registration of live births, fetal deaths, and induced terminations. It includes this quote: “All States require the reporting of a live birth regardless of length of gestation or weight”
    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/itop97.pdf

  18. Jamie

    I have young children.I worry about them constantly. I think about their future and a possible future without me there to care for them. I have people in their lives, who are prepared to step in to care for my (2) children, in the event of my death. As we know, death comes to everyone, including parents. My question is, in the event of you and your husband’s untimely departure. Who would step in to take on the nurturing and total care of your (11) children? Have you given thought to this issue?

  19. BlessedLittleHomestead

    Yes. We have. And have made arrangements accordingly, to which the details are to remain private

  20. BlessedLittleHomestead

    I am well aware of the pros and cons of of such and do not have any concerns. It’s a parental decision I have the right to make. End of story.

  21. BlessedLittleHomestead

    There is no federal requiring the filing of birth certificates

  22. Megan F

    “That applies to workers, not parents.”

    IIRC your husband was your birth attendant. From the statute:

    “No physician, midwife, or other attendant shall refuse to sign or delay the filing of a
    birth certificate”

  23. Megan F

    Having a right and something being right are two different things…you are aware of this, correct?

  24. Kelly

    Please read the link I sent. On page two, it reads “When a birth occurs outside an institution, the certificate shall be prepared and filed …..
    by one (1) of the following in the indicated order of priority:
    (a) The physician in attendance at or immediately after the birth; or, in the
    absence of such a person,
    (b) Any other person in attendance at or immediately after the birth; or, in the
    absence of such a person,
    (c) The father, the mother, or in the absence of the father and the inability of the
    mother, the person in charge of the premises where the birth occurred or of the
    institution to which the child was admitted following the birth.
    (7) No physician, midwife, or other attendant shall refuse to sign or delay the filing of a
    birth certificate.”

    Pretty sure b, c and 7 apply to you.

  25. Megan F

    That’s not really a very convincing argument for the legality of essentially hobbling your kids in the name of ‘freedom’. Amazing how restrictive your brand of freedom is…

  26. BlessedLittleHomestead

    I don’t owe you my explanation and I certainly don’t agree with your understanding of the use and purpose of birth certificates. Amazing how restrictive your brand of freedom is

  27. Megan F

    No, you certainly don’t owe me an explanation. I was thinking you were interested in a discussion since you are hosting one here on your blog. You *will* owe your kids an explanation though when they attempt to move out into society and get driver’s licenses, jobs, perhaps take exams to enter college, choose to travel abroad etc. That is going to be really tough on them. It’s already pretty tough going through those milestones in life without extra burdens.

    My kids have birth certificates, passports, and social insurance numbers (Canada). Because of this, we can pop over the boarder to travel, they have driver’s licences and jobs, my eldest will soon be able to vote. I don’t see how this is restrictive and I would be interested in hearing your perspective on how it is. (of course, you are completely within your rights not to share)

  28. Mary

    Megan, why do you pretend to care? The reason to have a birth certificate is so the government can track you. In case they want to go back to the draft and/or they can tax you. Give us a good reason..not the law but, what is the reason for the law? Why do we have to have paper work on us like we are a possession? That is the point. Some people don’t want their children being branded like cattle. Someday they will be putting I.d. chips in new born babies. If I sound crazy.. Just think about it ..think deeper!

  29. Lana

    My only real issue that I have with what you stated here is not having birth certificates or social security numbers for your kids. They will not be able to apply for jobs that take out state/local taxes, file taxes, get a marriage certificate, register to vote, register for college, apply for a loan, apply for home or renters insurance, or even apply for the military. It is your right and one 50 years ago that would have not been an issue but today you use a social for so many things. But to each their own. I probably grew up doing things that would make town Momma’s shudder and so will my daughter (hunting, fishing, raising animas, playing in mud, stepping in cow pies, etc.).

  30. Megan F

    Mary, I do care. I find this to be an interesting subject both personally and professionally. Paperwork helps the government–aka the people we elect in a democratic society to help uphold the social contract–keep track of things like population, birth and death stats, disease, infant mortality rates, — otherwise known as vital statistics. The reason these stats are important (vital, even 🙂 ) is because they help to inform public policy such as public health initiatives. There are many reasons for the many laws so I am not certain which one you are asking about.

    Registering births also helps prevent awful things like child trafficking. We, as a society, have put into place some overarching systems that help protect the most vulnerable among us (like infants and children). We need to know if a bunch of babies are going missing in certain areas. We need to know about infant mortality rates and explore causes like disease, nutrition, vaccinations, and nefarious causes as well. We keep track of our kids in this society in order to keep them safe from exploitation. Other areas of the world that do not treat children in the same ways we do are unfortunately dealing with horrific situations (child brides, child soldiers, children working in sweat shops and mines, etc.). Our systems prevent this type of exploitation.

    People don’t jump at the chance to pay taxes, so yes, we need systems that hold people accountable. In order to support programs such as medicare, subsidized seniors facilities, income assistance, public health, as well as vital infrastructure, we need tax dollars. We don’t live in an every-man-for-himself society (and I use “man” purposely here because might=right in that kind of system). All too often, people shirk responsibilities like paying child support. We need ways to track that.

    We need things like passports in order to keep track of the comings and goings of people whose intentions may be less than honourable. There was recently a huge bust of a network of ‘sex tourists’ who travel to places like Thailand to exploit young boys and girls sexually. That would not have been possible without passports and interpol.
    mean, I could go on. But I am not in a position to write a set of law books here lol

  31. Jingerbread

    Different states have different lengths of time. You eschew federal law, now try to claim it when you think it’ll suit you. Your state’s law mandates registering the birth within ten days. While I was busy actively homeschooling my child today, others found the law codes backing the legal mandate that your children’s births be registered. The government needs to know who they are, outside of CPS, so that their rights are protected.

    A birth certificate bestows the rights and protections of a US citizen when in the United States. Right now, they have no rights as US citizens as there is nothing to back that they are US citizens versus being born in Mexico and smuggled here. Your word doesn’t matter. If all it took was a parent demanding so, then people who sneak across the border could simply say their kids were born here too, and have to have their word taken.

    Right now, your children are undocumented children, legally different from those kids sent here only because if their skin tone and better ability to speak and understand English. Do you want your children’s rights protected, or is your desire to be “right” matter more? I sincerely want to know why you refuse so adamantly to follow the law and register their births so that their rights as US citizens are secured. What will you do when your children want to start to drive, but can’t get driver licenses? What will you do when or if they want to get jobs that don’t involve getting a dollar a day from you, but they need social security numbers and ID, which they can’t get without a birth certificate? What will you do if one of them manages to meet someone willing to marry them, but they can’t get marriage licenses without ID, which they can’t get without a birth certificate? They can’t get bank accounts, can’t apply for home or land loans, can’t even legally enter into a land purchase as you have done, without ID, for which they need…birth certificates. Does it not bother you at all that you have entirely crippled their chances at having independent adult lives, and are instead at your and Joe’s mercy?

    If you believe you can live a full life in the US without a birth certificate, without ID of any sort, and without a social, please write a blog post detailing how to legally drive, get insurance for the vehicle and their own health, how to get legal employment, go to college, marry, apply for house/apartment leases and/or house/land contract or purchases, and so on, when you have the same or less documentation than an undocumented/illegal immigrant. I am genuinely, sincerely, truly interested in learning from you how these things are possible without ever having as much as a birth certificate.

  32. I Dare Your To Post This

    Megan F….I too would like to hear the reasons why a birth certificate registration is a bad thing. I honestly don’t care how you live your life. But when one makes it so difficult for their child to have a life outside of themselves, I get a bit prickly. We will likely never know her reasons.

  33. Darcy Dallin

    The concern is the birth certificates and not getting an SS #. You can get an SS # at any time, but if someone can’t prove the exact day and time and place of an infants birth, (would they accept a picture that was day and time stamped that mom or dad took – although who’s to believe the baby in pic is the person who is standing in front of them??) than when the kids have to get their BC’s they will not be able to because there is no way to “prove” a babies real birth day.
    I know you hate the government, but they aren’t just going to go “on your word” of a day, time, place of when your babies were born. Even if you have a home birth, that birth has to LEGALLY be recorded and someone has to file that information. If the only person present was joe, than he was required legally to file that info with the state.
    With as much stupid problems you have had with cps, cps will continue to come after you just because of this because lack of BC’s is actually illegal, whether it be a state or federal law. But who cares about the law and I know you don’t want to follow this law and that’s fine, but as others have stated here and even if they hadn’t stated it here, I was thinking the same thing before I even read all the comments. Think about your children. You can live in your “shack”. We know it’s not one and the children had enough shelter from the elements, etc.
    But your children will not be able to go to a higher education institution w/o a BC, if one of your children decided to serve the military, they will not be able to w/o a BC, w/o a BC your kids can not vote to CHANGE the cps “laws”. They can not ever get married (unless the kids choose for the marriage to not be recognized by the state (and what if your future DIL or SIL wants their marriage to be legally recognized))?
    Your kids will not be able to ever get a job & file for taxes – which is exactly how YOU make an income. They will never be able to rent or buy a home. Unless you plan on having all your children live on the homestead for the rest of their lives and never get a job to provide the homestead with monetary support (because you can only grow so much food). And like I stated, by the time the children are 18 and can make that decision to get their own BC or a SS # they will never be able to because there is no “proof” your child was ever born!!
    Yes, this is a governments problem and laws need to be changed and what if one of your children wanted to do something in the government to change the world for the better!? Yes, I get the laws are stupid and need to be changed but, there are still laws in place. Nicole, you and Joe have BC’s and SS #’s to have a future – even if it is on the homestead! Your kids will than these papers to in order to have a future!
    I agree with you Nicole when it comes to the false “crap” concerning the waste composit, not having enough walls to shelter your family, which I thought was just fine, growing your own food, homeschooling (I hate the educational system), but your kids need BC’s in order to have their own future – even if you don’t like it. Now, I don’t know how late it is for a child to get a BC.
    Also, has Joe NEVER worked a day in his life? If he has and Nicole, you have worked for other institutions beside yourself before getting your successful business. BUT if you and Joe were to both die and if you have arranged for your children to be taken care of that is great! BUT there is “free” money out there – and that is social security death benefits. It may a very small sum, but hey, something is better than nothing and your kids won’t be able to get this “free” money without BC’s and SS #’s. Even if you have the best “back up” person to take care of the children – anything can fall thru – and you will, tragically, be gone and unable to fix it and say tragically your children have to go to foster care – you realize the government will get your kids BC’s & SS #’s somehow, so they can foster your kids out so cps gets money for adopting them out?
    I mean, what is the true reason for not getting BC’s & SS #’s for your children?? Yes, the govt is evil and can track everyone, anywhere BUT cps is doing the same thing already to your family already by coming to your house every time a stupid and false call is made to cps and these Haters are tracking you and your family at all times already!! So why can’t you do this for your children so they don’t have to worry about it and stress out about it and get mad their parents and blame their parents because of having to somehow and with much difficulty get their own BC’s & SS #’s when they become adults?

  34. The CPS investigation process is online

    The CPS investigation process is online. It is transparent to everyone. Details of a case are not transparent unless allowed and shared. At the end of an investigation all concerns/allegations are either found valid or not valid. A substantiated investigation notification letter is sent for all findings that are valid. An unsubstantiated notification letter is sent for all findings that are not valid. Nicole, the only letter that you posted was a substantiated investigation notification letter. CPS had two findings, not one. They found that both educational and environmental concerns were valid. (See kentucky chfs manual, chapter 3, SOP 163.6, 163.15, 163.16, 164.17). You did state that CPS required fencing about the pond and burn pile. I do not recall if CPS wanted the trash cleaned up (trash clean up day was held) or to obtain your cabin. -Debbie S

  35. Alfrieda

    If you posted a photo of the fourth wall it would put the controversy to rest.

  36. Andrea

    I highly recommend you check out the story of Alecia Faith Pennington whose parents did not register her birth or obtain a SS number. She needed the assistance of multiple attorney and the passage of a state law in Texas in order to obtain a birth certificate. She still cannot get a SS number.

  37. Mary

    Megan, I under stand your reasons or should I say the governments reasons. My grandfather was born 90 some years ago and his birth certificate was put in a church book some where in Pennsylvania. The church burnt down. He we t to school, worked in a factory his whole life..even after retirement he worked as a security guard. He had a drivers license (back then you didn’tneed one) what I am try to say that birth certificate and s.s number were not needed. Why now? Other than tracking people. He even served in the army. Any when he retired he got his pension. His parents.. My great grand parents came from Italy. Some family came and changed their last name when they got here or their last names were miss spelled. Heck..right now people can get into Canada but can’t get out without a pass port. When I was a young teen we went to Mexico and back with out a pass port. what my point is is that paper work is governments way to know everyones business and control better. Think back during world war. If the Jewish people could pretend to be German they lived. If they had a paper trail on them they couldn’t have pulled it off. Many Jewish children lived because of a nurse that hid them and passed them off to other families to save their lives. If there was a need for paper trail they would not have lived. That is a example of thinking deeper.

  38. Megan F

    Mary, the old systems of registering with churches and such were unreliable. When better systems became available (and also fewer people were part of church communities) we switched to them. The reasons for registering have always been the same and I have outlined some in a post above.
    Bringing the holocaust up as a reason not to register your kids’ births is…well… with all due respect it’s not even worthy of a response.

  39. The fourth wall

    Alfrieda, I thought the same thing about the fourth wall. When the news crew were invited for clean-up day, I thought it would be in one of the photos with Nicole and Joe stating it was the fourth wall. Sometime after the kids were returned Nicole stated that the fourth wall was dismantled and repurposed. -Debbie S

  40. Jingerbread

    Mary, birth certificates serve a purpose I’m sure even you’re capable of understanding:

    A birth certificate proves where you were born.

    American citizens have rights that you don’t have by not being an American citizen. A birth certificate proves you were born in this country. Without requiring them, then people from, oh, let’s say, Mexico or Saudi Arabia (I doubt you like those brown-skinned people very much, so let’s use them here) could claim that they have the right to enter straight into this country and never be looked at. People who genuinely are terrorists, regardless of where they’re from, could just walk right on in here, and no one could say anything, because how can you prove that they aren’t citizens while proving your own undocumented kids are? A birth certificate is what gives you American rights.

    A birth certificate itself doesn’t track you. It does nothing more than prove where you were born, and when, and in doing that, ensures your American rights. It doesn’t even verify if you’re still alive. There is nothing about it that tracks where you live, if you’re married, your religion, anything at all. It can be used to get other documents that can do those things, but children can decide, as adults, to get those other things if their parents don’t.

    You asked about your grandfather. Well, back 90 years ago, there weren’t reliable methods of tracking births. Babies died so often that it was often seen as a waste of time to get one if your baby had a decent chance of dying within a month, and on top of that, it was very difficult for many people to get to places that registered births. This is why church records and old family bibles can be used for older people to prove when they were born, or at least when about they were born. Many families recorded births with their churches (either the date of birth, or the date of baptism, which works to prove “at least as old as”).

    When immigrants came to this country, country of origin was recorded, and when names were changed, those were recorded as well. It can be hard to find those records since they were usually in large ledgers that weren’t organized, but they tried. Children were often able to come over here during WWII because our government agents looked the other way when it came to keeping children away from bombs, especially when it was known that the goal, 100%, was for those children to go back to their parents, if their parents lived. Our agents did not look the other way when it came to adults, which is why those parents stayed behind. So you’re wrong that people were just sailing into the US, happily changing names willy nilly. That hasn’t happened since white people decided the native Indians were animals to be beaten off the land, back when traveling from one country to another was so difficult and expensive that it was virtually guaranteed that the country someone was in, especially middle class and under families, was where they were born.

    Just because there was once a time things were done a certain way doesn’t mean they should stay that way. Children used to be married off. Blacks used to be slaves. Wives could be beaten. A black person and white person could be evicted from their own state of residence for being in a relationship (only about 60 years ago!). Should we support child-brides, slavery, wife-beating, and interracial-marriage bans because that’s how it was done once upon a time?

    The Naugler children were all born after reliable methods of birth certificates had been formed. They were all born in a time when they are required as proof of citizenship so that their rights can be ensured. They were all born in a time when not having the means their rights are reduced to undocumented or illegal immigrants. Their parents know this, and are putting pride above their children’s rights, which is horrifying and wrong as well as illegal, and Nicole and Joe don’t care one smidge that they’ve crippled their children’s abilities to have full, productive, independent lives, and that those children have massive struggles ahead of them. I guarantee you that those children will not all still be on speaking terms in another 15 years, when some of them may want to marry and can’t, try to go to college, and find not only is their educational level elementary, but they don’t qualify to register or get aid, can’t get jobs to rent homes off of the shackstead, and have been forced to rely on parents who think that a patch of ground and mangy egg crate mattress are plenty for their kids to share. Nicole and Joe might find themselves being sued for this abuse, and I expect we’ll see laws changed as a result of them alone, which failing to register birth becoming a federal crime with jail time.

  41. Jingerbread

    Nicole, something that I think would be fun and educational, that would either prove you right while educating critics, or prove critics right, if is you were to have an AMA of sorts, where the questions were all different situations where the rest of us see the need for something you need a birth certificate and some point to do. You can either tell us realistic ways to do it without a birth certificate, or something you’d need a birth certificate to get, that don’t involve stokes of luck, or you give critics the point. The catch is you have to address all scenarios presented, not just the ones you have answers to. If there are things the rest of us see a need for a birth certificate (or ID or a social security card or something) to do, I’m sure a lot of us would love to know how to get around without one.

    In fact, one of my white best friends is very interested, in a non-joking manner, in how to start her life over after getting away from her Mexican-toned son’s abusive Mexican dad, who also ruined her credit and has made it so she can’t qualify for even housing that takes section 8. If she could start over with a new identity by claiming to have no birth certificate (and no BC means no social or ID), and if you know some workaround to finding realistic work that doesn’t need an SSN, and how to get housing without an SSN and credit history, she would be grateful. Bonus if you know how she could shred her son’s birth certificate too and claim he doesn’t have one, and yet risk no potential legal issues arising from not being able to prove who she or he are, where they were born, and with no proof that she and her son are related. Since she and he son she birthed are different races, she worried about what could happen if her ex got vindictive and decided to question her relation to a child of a different race when he can prove he’s the dad via the birth certificate, but she, without a birth certificate of her own anymore and tossing her ID, couldn’t.

    Let’s start this game with her situation. How could she toss her birth certificate and the ID and social she got because of it, and her son’s birth certificate and social, and continue through life without them, without risking the son’s dad from being able to ruin their lives. How can she get a job and get housing with her new claim to no ID of any sort and her new claim of no credit report because of no social? Without an ID, no one can tie her to either. She’d genuinely love to know how to do this, and because she is hoping to evade ever being around an abuser again, you could save a life by enlightening us all about how she can do this without birth certificates.

  42. BlessedLittleHomestead

    The 4th wall was taken down in April, well before the kids were taken. It’s when we put the outside kitchen area back up. It’s in the pics on BLH FB page if you look back. No, there isn’t a photo of the wall. I seriously didn’t think I would ever in my life have to prove it’s existence lol

  43. Debbie S

    Thanks for the information, Nicole. I was not certain when the wall was actually taken down. I thought it would have been interesting to see how the wall was built to attach to the other walls. But you did say that the new cabin was to be built over the summer and so the wood was needed for other purposes. -Debbie S

  44. Meagan

    While I see both sides of the birth cert “issue”, and the SS# “issue”. I don’t see why others are concerned with it. These people aren’t their kids, and what they do is not their business.
    From my perspective, if these kids want to join society, they will learn how to fill out gov’t forms earlier and better than most folks. That is not something that public/private school will often teach.

    This, like everything in life, will be a learning experience for them that they can carry on forever. It will help make things easier later on, if they choose to live within those frames of society.

    Having either one of those documents does not mean that they will have an easier time/better time obtaining a job within society, it does not guarantee that they will have an easier time being accepted into a college if they choose to go. (Just look at all the people who have those documents, and CANT go to college, or cannot obtain a job).

  45. Ali

    CPS information is never available to the public and if it is, it’s illegal.

    Im glad you “clear up” the Air with the ridiculous adults sick bullies whom seem to have serious mental health issues. It’s ashame that they are trapped with evil souls and brittle bones. They spend their entire lives obsessed with others lives, what a hideous way to live and waste your life.

    The have obsessive disorders and childhood disorders hemselevs that have carried into adulthoid, it’s obvious because they simply can’t live peacefully. They aren’t happy without putting others down. Usually children that are severely neglected and abused become narcissistic and grown up and fixate on bothering others for negative attention. It’s a disorder. That’s what that woman does who has a blog, constant blabbing to receive attention on herself, although it’s negative she doesn’t care, she is desperate for people to idolize her, again, because she lacked proper nurturing in her own childhood.

    They lie, they mock, the bully, they change face. You have to feel pity fr them because they will never ever change as they can’t see what’s wrong with them. They disrupt others lives to fulfill their deep rooted need to recieve all eyes s on them.

    Don’t take them personally. They are SO JEALOUS of the love your kid’s receive as they can’t get past how they were neglected as children. Rather than be happy for you, as normal secure people would be, they try to tear you down. They too wish they had love…no matter what kind of house…they were lacking love.

    The result is adult bullying and a truly annoying self absorbed personlaity that attacks other “misery loves company” Comrades. Dont sweat them… they are all dysfunctional little adult children craving attention.

  46. Filled With Knowledge

    Birth certificates and SS number are merely a way for the United States Corporation to identify it’s property. It’s a little known fact that the US Treasury uses your birth certificate as a license to print money. If you know how to cash it in and use it your birth certificate is priceless

  47. Rose

    I personally think that’s horrible and selfish of you to not give your children birth certificates. I had mine lost in a fire and had moved out of that state and I couldn’t marry my fiancé, couldn’t get food stamps. Nothing. As I do respect you and enjoy your page. I’m completely in disagreement with you on the birth certificates. In the long run, you are hurting your children by this. You can live off the grid all you want, but someday your children might need some help when they themselves are parents. Will they be able to drive? Get a job? I myself could not find work because I had no ID. It took me a very long time and I was a terrible experience that I don’t wish on anyone.

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